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	<title>Comments on: Victorious Webber leads Red Bull one-two in Monaco</title>
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		<title>By: walking_leaf</title>
		<link>http://www.walkingleaf.co.uk/2010/05/16/victorious-webber-leads-red-bull-one-two-in-monaco/comment-page-1/#comment-8614</link>
		<dc:creator>walking_leaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 14:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.walkingleaf.co.uk/?p=1217#comment-8614</guid>
		<description>An update on that Mercedes GP appeal against Schumacher&#039;s penalty. Autosport.com has the details and the full story is shown below:

Mercedes GP has decided not to press ahead with its appeal against Michael Schumacher&#039;s 20-second penalty at the Monaco Grand Prix, after the FIA agreed to talks about tidying up the safety car regulations.

Schumacher grabbed sixth place from Fernando Alonso at the final corner of the Monaco Grand Prix, shortly after the safety car had pulled into the pits at the end of the last lap.

The Mercedes GP team believed that the move was legitimate because racing is this season allowed from safety car line one at a safety car restart, rather than just from the start-finish line.

The FIA believed, however, that Schumacher&#039;s move was not allowed because it breached Article 40.13 which states that no overtaking is allowed if the race finishes behind the safety car.

The rule says: &quot;If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.&quot;

Mercedes GP argued that the race did not finish under the safety car because there were &#039;Safety Car in this lap&#039; and &#039;Track Clear&#039; messages from race control, plus green flags and lights after safety car line one - suggesting that racing had briefly restarted.

In a statement issued by Mercedes GP on Tuesday, the team stated: &quot;This opinion appears to have been shared by the majority of the teams with cars in the top ten positions who also gave their drivers instructions to race to the finish line.&quot;

The team&#039;s claims were not supported by the race stewards in Monaco, however, who reported that Schumacher had breached Article 40.13 and handed him a 20-second penalty in lieu of a drive-through from the team. That dropped him down to 12th in the standings.

On Sunday night, Mercedes GP notified the FIA that it planned to appeal the stewards&#039; decision - even though drive-through penalties cannot in theory be protested. It needed to confirm its appeal plans by the end of Tuesday, but has decided not to follow it through.

In its statement, Mercedes GP said it understood why there could be differing interpretations of Article 40.13, which is why it welcomed an agreement from the FIA to discuss and clarify the rule at the next meeting of think-tank the Sporting Working Group.

&quot;It was clear from our discussions with the stewards after the race that they understood the reasons for our interpretation and acknowledged that this was a new and previously untested situation but ultimately disagreed with our interpretation,&quot; said a Mercedes GP statement.

&quot;Mercedes GP would like to emphasise that we fully support the inclusion of past drivers on the stewards&#039; panel and are completely satisfied that the Monaco Grand Prix stewards acted professionally, impartially and properly in this matter.

&quot;The FIA has agreed to include article 40.13 on the agenda of the next Sporting Working Group for discussion and to consider the scale of post race penalties. We believe that the 20-second penalty imposed on Michael to be disproportionate in the circumstances.

&quot;Whilst we cannot be happy with the outcome, we are pleased that the FIA has recognised the reasons for our interpretation. Therefore in the best interests of the sport, Mercedes GP will not be submitting an appeal.&quot;

F1 Fanatic has also posted details on this and can be read here:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/05/18/mercedes-withdraws-schumacher-monaco-appeal/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An update on that Mercedes GP appeal against Schumacher&#8217;s penalty. Autosport.com has the details and the full story is shown below:</p>
<p>Mercedes GP has decided not to press ahead with its appeal against Michael Schumacher&#8217;s 20-second penalty at the Monaco Grand Prix, after the FIA agreed to talks about tidying up the safety car regulations.</p>
<p>Schumacher grabbed sixth place from Fernando Alonso at the final corner of the Monaco Grand Prix, shortly after the safety car had pulled into the pits at the end of the last lap.</p>
<p>The Mercedes GP team believed that the move was legitimate because racing is this season allowed from safety car line one at a safety car restart, rather than just from the start-finish line.</p>
<p>The FIA believed, however, that Schumacher&#8217;s move was not allowed because it breached Article 40.13 which states that no overtaking is allowed if the race finishes behind the safety car.</p>
<p>The rule says: &#8220;If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.&#8221;</p>
<p>Mercedes GP argued that the race did not finish under the safety car because there were &#8216;Safety Car in this lap&#8217; and &#8216;Track Clear&#8217; messages from race control, plus green flags and lights after safety car line one &#8211; suggesting that racing had briefly restarted.</p>
<p>In a statement issued by Mercedes GP on Tuesday, the team stated: &#8220;This opinion appears to have been shared by the majority of the teams with cars in the top ten positions who also gave their drivers instructions to race to the finish line.&#8221;</p>
<p>The team&#8217;s claims were not supported by the race stewards in Monaco, however, who reported that Schumacher had breached Article 40.13 and handed him a 20-second penalty in lieu of a drive-through from the team. That dropped him down to 12th in the standings.</p>
<p>On Sunday night, Mercedes GP notified the FIA that it planned to appeal the stewards&#8217; decision &#8211; even though drive-through penalties cannot in theory be protested. It needed to confirm its appeal plans by the end of Tuesday, but has decided not to follow it through.</p>
<p>In its statement, Mercedes GP said it understood why there could be differing interpretations of Article 40.13, which is why it welcomed an agreement from the FIA to discuss and clarify the rule at the next meeting of think-tank the Sporting Working Group.</p>
<p>&#8220;It was clear from our discussions with the stewards after the race that they understood the reasons for our interpretation and acknowledged that this was a new and previously untested situation but ultimately disagreed with our interpretation,&#8221; said a Mercedes GP statement.</p>
<p>&#8220;Mercedes GP would like to emphasise that we fully support the inclusion of past drivers on the stewards&#8217; panel and are completely satisfied that the Monaco Grand Prix stewards acted professionally, impartially and properly in this matter.</p>
<p>&#8220;The FIA has agreed to include article 40.13 on the agenda of the next Sporting Working Group for discussion and to consider the scale of post race penalties. We believe that the 20-second penalty imposed on Michael to be disproportionate in the circumstances.</p>
<p>&#8220;Whilst we cannot be happy with the outcome, we are pleased that the FIA has recognised the reasons for our interpretation. Therefore in the best interests of the sport, Mercedes GP will not be submitting an appeal.&#8221;</p>
<p>F1 Fanatic has also posted details on this and can be read here:<br />
<a href="http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/05/18/mercedes-withdraws-schumacher-monaco-appeal/" rel="nofollow">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/05/18/mercedes-withdraws-schumacher-monaco-appeal/</a></p>
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		<title>By: walking_leaf</title>
		<link>http://www.walkingleaf.co.uk/2010/05/16/victorious-webber-leads-red-bull-one-two-in-monaco/comment-page-1/#comment-8605</link>
		<dc:creator>walking_leaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 09:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.walkingleaf.co.uk/?p=1217#comment-8605</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments Invisiblekid and Wai about the lack of consistency with the penalties handed out by the race stewards.

Yet again the rules within Formula One has played its part in turning this harsh decision to uproar within the fans of the sport. Just take a look at the comments posted by F1 Fanatic following this penalty of Michael Schumacher. The article itself made some good valid points on why the current rules made the sport look ridiculous.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/05/16/the-fias-badly-written-rules-leave-formula-1-looking-stupid-once-again/

As for the incident, why did race control and the track marshals wave the green flag even though the race would finish under safety car conditions? Both Ferrari and McLaren told their drivers (Felipe Massa, Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton) to hold station and not overtake. And yet Michael Schumacher and the Mercedes GP team believe it was possible to overtake thanks to the new location of the safety car line and the green flags being waved.

Being Michael, he took the initiative and pass his rival Fernando as the Ferrari slide wide under acceleration. That was a smart move by the seven-time world champion as he did that overtaking just as he went over that safety car line... But according to Jose Abed, Paul Gutjahr, Christian Calmes and Damon Hill (the race stewards at the Monaco Grand Prix), that moment on the last lap at the final corner broke the FIA rules and Michael was penalised with a twenty-second penalty. Was it harsh? Yes, as dropping from P6 down to P12 meant he lost all the points he scored for Mercedes GP.

So another controversy in Formula One. Where is the consistency in handed out penalties if the rules are not clear in the first place? Lets see if the Mercedes GP team can win their appeal at the courts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments Invisiblekid and Wai about the lack of consistency with the penalties handed out by the race stewards.</p>
<p>Yet again the rules within Formula One has played its part in turning this harsh decision to uproar within the fans of the sport. Just take a look at the comments posted by F1 Fanatic following this penalty of Michael Schumacher. The article itself made some good valid points on why the current rules made the sport look ridiculous.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/05/16/the-fias-badly-written-rules-leave-formula-1-looking-stupid-once-again/" rel="nofollow">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/05/16/the-fias-badly-written-rules-leave-formula-1-looking-stupid-once-again/</a></p>
<p>As for the incident, why did race control and the track marshals wave the green flag even though the race would finish under safety car conditions? Both Ferrari and McLaren told their drivers (Felipe Massa, Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton) to hold station and not overtake. And yet Michael Schumacher and the Mercedes GP team believe it was possible to overtake thanks to the new location of the safety car line and the green flags being waved.</p>
<p>Being Michael, he took the initiative and pass his rival Fernando as the Ferrari slide wide under acceleration. That was a smart move by the seven-time world champion as he did that overtaking just as he went over that safety car line&#8230; But according to Jose Abed, Paul Gutjahr, Christian Calmes and Damon Hill (the race stewards at the Monaco Grand Prix), that moment on the last lap at the final corner broke the FIA rules and Michael was penalised with a twenty-second penalty. Was it harsh? Yes, as dropping from P6 down to P12 meant he lost all the points he scored for Mercedes GP.</p>
<p>So another controversy in Formula One. Where is the consistency in handed out penalties if the rules are not clear in the first place? Lets see if the Mercedes GP team can win their appeal at the courts.</p>
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		<title>By: Wai</title>
		<link>http://www.walkingleaf.co.uk/2010/05/16/victorious-webber-leads-red-bull-one-two-in-monaco/comment-page-1/#comment-8600</link>
		<dc:creator>Wai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 07:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.walkingleaf.co.uk/?p=1217#comment-8600</guid>
		<description>The stewardship of this race weekend in general has been appalling. 

No investigations were even instigated for Massa&#039;s blocking of Button in Q3 , Rubens petulantly endangering other cars/drivers/marshals by throwing his steering wheel across the paths of other cars, Massa again for crossing the pit lane exit line during the race. When they finally decide they ought to earn their keep with the Schumacher incident then they come up with this!

      The legality of Schumacher&#039;s move pivots on whether race control has decreed  that the race will end under yellow flags and the safety car. It is agreed that, since it was the last lap, the safety car would have pulled into the pits at that point come what may. However the in-car  footage clearly showed both the green light AND waved green flags were displayed beyond the safety car line - this signals to the drivers that the race is ON. Alonso evidently thought  so, otherwise he would not have accelerated too hard nor have fought both Schumacher and Rosberg on the entry and exit of the final corner.
          The decision of the stewards obviously concludes that the race was supposed to have been completed under yellows. Then the fault clearly lies with Race Control giving the drivers the wrong instruction. There is no way that a driver should be penalized for obeying clear and unambiguous instructions from authority.
          The FIA has learnt nothing from Melbourne 2009 and remains resolute to the believe that those overseeing the running of the race should not be seen as  wrong . It&#039;s preferable to penalize teams and drivers rather than undermine it&#039;s righteous authority.
 
          Either that or it really does have a Ferrari bias ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The stewardship of this race weekend in general has been appalling. </p>
<p>No investigations were even instigated for Massa&#8217;s blocking of Button in Q3 , Rubens petulantly endangering other cars/drivers/marshals by throwing his steering wheel across the paths of other cars, Massa again for crossing the pit lane exit line during the race. When they finally decide they ought to earn their keep with the Schumacher incident then they come up with this!</p>
<p>      The legality of Schumacher&#8217;s move pivots on whether race control has decreed  that the race will end under yellow flags and the safety car. It is agreed that, since it was the last lap, the safety car would have pulled into the pits at that point come what may. However the in-car  footage clearly showed both the green light AND waved green flags were displayed beyond the safety car line &#8211; this signals to the drivers that the race is ON. Alonso evidently thought  so, otherwise he would not have accelerated too hard nor have fought both Schumacher and Rosberg on the entry and exit of the final corner.<br />
          The decision of the stewards obviously concludes that the race was supposed to have been completed under yellows. Then the fault clearly lies with Race Control giving the drivers the wrong instruction. There is no way that a driver should be penalized for obeying clear and unambiguous instructions from authority.<br />
          The FIA has learnt nothing from Melbourne 2009 and remains resolute to the believe that those overseeing the running of the race should not be seen as  wrong . It&#8217;s preferable to penalize teams and drivers rather than undermine it&#8217;s righteous authority.</p>
<p>          Either that or it really does have a Ferrari bias <img src='http://www.walkingleaf.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Invisiblekid</title>
		<link>http://www.walkingleaf.co.uk/2010/05/16/victorious-webber-leads-red-bull-one-two-in-monaco/comment-page-1/#comment-8592</link>
		<dc:creator>Invisiblekid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 00:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.walkingleaf.co.uk/?p=1217#comment-8592</guid>
		<description>LOL OK so after watching RB&#039;s comments and photo&#039;s etc on the video on the BBC, it&#039;s got me all fuming again!

There were GREEN FLAGS AND LIGHTS!!!!!!!! ergo, no safety car, ergo your free to race. That&#039;s what the flags MEAN!!! Arrrrgh! 

And you cant appeal against the penalty, only the decision?! So if this was the final race, and Shuey got enough points to win the championship, in 6th pos. But he got the penalty, Merc appealed and won, so the team was right and the FIA were wrong, but then Shuey still wouldn&#039;t be champion?!

Who the f*** would want to get into F1?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL OK so after watching RB&#8217;s comments and photo&#8217;s etc on the video on the BBC, it&#8217;s got me all fuming again!</p>
<p>There were GREEN FLAGS AND LIGHTS!!!!!!!! ergo, no safety car, ergo your free to race. That&#8217;s what the flags MEAN!!! Arrrrgh! </p>
<p>And you cant appeal against the penalty, only the decision?! So if this was the final race, and Shuey got enough points to win the championship, in 6th pos. But he got the penalty, Merc appealed and won, so the team was right and the FIA were wrong, but then Shuey still wouldn&#8217;t be champion?!</p>
<p>Who the f*** would want to get into F1?</p>
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		<title>By: Invisiblekid</title>
		<link>http://www.walkingleaf.co.uk/2010/05/16/victorious-webber-leads-red-bull-one-two-in-monaco/comment-page-1/#comment-8590</link>
		<dc:creator>Invisiblekid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 00:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.walkingleaf.co.uk/?p=1217#comment-8590</guid>
		<description>OK so first off. Monaco rarely has truly great racing, there just isn&#039;t the room to accommodate overtaking. So were are often left with a procession with the only action come from crashes and more so if it rains. 

However, on this track, I don&#039;t give a crap how few overtaking move there are. I just revel in watching these cars race round this most famous street circuit in the world. watching them get within millimetres of the side walls at over a 100mph sometimes is breathtaking. As is watching them fly round the chicanes in the swimming pool area. My god it&#039;s cool. All I did was flick between the in car camera option round most of the track and the track cam at the mention chicanes. Just brilliant stuff and such history. One day, I WILL go there despite the huge costs involved. Maybe I&#039;ll sell a kidney or something!

Now onto Mark Webber! Wow! After a simply stunning pole position, he was never troubled even after the many safety car re-starts. Though its not hard to get those wrong since it&#039;s so hard to pass. but a brilliant drive and a brilliant 1-2 finish for Red Bull. At last they finally seem to be converting there great qualifying positions it seems taking last week results in Spain. Seeing them taking to the swimming pool after the race, it was evident, they were just a little bit happy! But then, Jesus, a 1-2 finish at Monaco, who can blame them?!

But oh dear McLaren. Leaving a cooling cover blocking a radiator?! But then, the grid is utter mayhem before the start and in this day and age with so much equipment attracted to the car, it&#039;s hard to imagine that more stuff is not left on or in cooling vents etc. Lewis did OK finishing in the same position. he started in. But then, your an F1 driver, in Monaco, with a pretty good car, and you finish the race. That&#039;s enough for most, as they all know its so hard to make up positions and so hard to not end up facing the wrong way with no wheels on your car.........

Talking wheels lol. Rubin&#039;o, Rubin&#039;o. not only did all four of wheels get wiped out, so did his steering wheel when he throw it out  on the track for what looked like an HRT car to drive over the £20K+ delicate piece of equipment. Luckily, the fact that his car had no wheels left to steer and the cranes are used to take the cars off the track. Otherwise, since it&#039;s a rule you must leave the steering wheel on the car. anywhere else, I think he would have been fined. Of course the other Williams car didn&#039;t too well either!

The rest of the field also dropped like flies and contributed to the many safety car instances. The first of course catapulted Alonso waaaaay up the the field. Fast forward to THAT overtake then. 

Now as far as I see it, on first looks, Mercedes&#039;  Schumacher had ample right to overtake. The last note sent to Ross Brawn was &quot;track clear&quot;. Since it was after the white line and the safety car was NOT on the track, AND the green light was showing, I felt it was a legitimate move. The problem comes with, when is a race classified to finish under the safety car and when is it not? The rules state, if a race if finished behind the safety car, you cannot overtake. Fine, no problem with that. But then why have the safety come into the pits? I&#039;m sure in previous races in torrential rain, I&#039;ve seen the safety car carry on PAST the start/finish line. 
Then couple that with the race notes RB had, it&#039;s not very clear is it?

it&#039;s now to be read that the race was deemed to be finished behind the safety car, given that Schuey got punished. So WHY! tell the teams the track is clear.? WHY! have the safety car come into the pits? WHY show a green light BEFORE the last corner marker? It seems to me a big f*** up by Charley Whiting and co about the rules and Mercedes was unfairly punished. If those are the rules then fine. But it was by no means whatsoever clear rules. Now this being the case, ( and so clearly it was ) why on earth punish the driver for a complete confusion over the rules and irresponsible display of green flags/lights. 

I&#039;d be fine with not giving Schuey sixth place. But a post race drive through?!?! You have got to be kidding!

As DC mentioned on the forum after the race, what if Webber had a crash? Could no-one pass then? If he totaled his car, then I assume he is considered to &quot;have left the track&quot; and so you can overtake. Fine. But what if he just took a wheel out and he could slowly carry on? If a car can finish a race under it&#039;s own steam, then it&#039;s position stands. So with three wheels then, a safety car finish and Webber could still control the car and slowly make it to the checkered flag, then all the other racers just have to follow!?! What a load of utter bollocks!

Holy crap FIA, you just made me side with Michael Schumacher!!!

And on that note........

But congrats to Mark. 

Webber FTW!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK so first off. Monaco rarely has truly great racing, there just isn&#8217;t the room to accommodate overtaking. So were are often left with a procession with the only action come from crashes and more so if it rains. </p>
<p>However, on this track, I don&#8217;t give a crap how few overtaking move there are. I just revel in watching these cars race round this most famous street circuit in the world. watching them get within millimetres of the side walls at over a 100mph sometimes is breathtaking. As is watching them fly round the chicanes in the swimming pool area. My god it&#8217;s cool. All I did was flick between the in car camera option round most of the track and the track cam at the mention chicanes. Just brilliant stuff and such history. One day, I WILL go there despite the huge costs involved. Maybe I&#8217;ll sell a kidney or something!</p>
<p>Now onto Mark Webber! Wow! After a simply stunning pole position, he was never troubled even after the many safety car re-starts. Though its not hard to get those wrong since it&#8217;s so hard to pass. but a brilliant drive and a brilliant 1-2 finish for Red Bull. At last they finally seem to be converting there great qualifying positions it seems taking last week results in Spain. Seeing them taking to the swimming pool after the race, it was evident, they were just a little bit happy! But then, Jesus, a 1-2 finish at Monaco, who can blame them?!</p>
<p>But oh dear McLaren. Leaving a cooling cover blocking a radiator?! But then, the grid is utter mayhem before the start and in this day and age with so much equipment attracted to the car, it&#8217;s hard to imagine that more stuff is not left on or in cooling vents etc. Lewis did OK finishing in the same position. he started in. But then, your an F1 driver, in Monaco, with a pretty good car, and you finish the race. That&#8217;s enough for most, as they all know its so hard to make up positions and so hard to not end up facing the wrong way with no wheels on your car&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>Talking wheels lol. Rubin&#8217;o, Rubin&#8217;o. not only did all four of wheels get wiped out, so did his steering wheel when he throw it out  on the track for what looked like an HRT car to drive over the £20K+ delicate piece of equipment. Luckily, the fact that his car had no wheels left to steer and the cranes are used to take the cars off the track. Otherwise, since it&#8217;s a rule you must leave the steering wheel on the car. anywhere else, I think he would have been fined. Of course the other Williams car didn&#8217;t too well either!</p>
<p>The rest of the field also dropped like flies and contributed to the many safety car instances. The first of course catapulted Alonso waaaaay up the the field. Fast forward to THAT overtake then. </p>
<p>Now as far as I see it, on first looks, Mercedes&#8217;  Schumacher had ample right to overtake. The last note sent to Ross Brawn was &#8220;track clear&#8221;. Since it was after the white line and the safety car was NOT on the track, AND the green light was showing, I felt it was a legitimate move. The problem comes with, when is a race classified to finish under the safety car and when is it not? The rules state, if a race if finished behind the safety car, you cannot overtake. Fine, no problem with that. But then why have the safety come into the pits? I&#8217;m sure in previous races in torrential rain, I&#8217;ve seen the safety car carry on PAST the start/finish line.<br />
Then couple that with the race notes RB had, it&#8217;s not very clear is it?</p>
<p>it&#8217;s now to be read that the race was deemed to be finished behind the safety car, given that Schuey got punished. So WHY! tell the teams the track is clear.? WHY! have the safety car come into the pits? WHY show a green light BEFORE the last corner marker? It seems to me a big f*** up by Charley Whiting and co about the rules and Mercedes was unfairly punished. If those are the rules then fine. But it was by no means whatsoever clear rules. Now this being the case, ( and so clearly it was ) why on earth punish the driver for a complete confusion over the rules and irresponsible display of green flags/lights. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d be fine with not giving Schuey sixth place. But a post race drive through?!?! You have got to be kidding!</p>
<p>As DC mentioned on the forum after the race, what if Webber had a crash? Could no-one pass then? If he totaled his car, then I assume he is considered to &#8220;have left the track&#8221; and so you can overtake. Fine. But what if he just took a wheel out and he could slowly carry on? If a car can finish a race under it&#8217;s own steam, then it&#8217;s position stands. So with three wheels then, a safety car finish and Webber could still control the car and slowly make it to the checkered flag, then all the other racers just have to follow!?! What a load of utter bollocks!</p>
<p>Holy crap FIA, you just made me side with Michael Schumacher!!!</p>
<p>And on that note&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>But congrats to Mark. </p>
<p>Webber FTW!!</p>
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